DIALOGUE BETWEEN SAGE VASISHTA AND THE DREAMER
(Compiled from the Dreamer’s notebook and elucidated by the editor)
Continued...

20. DREAMER: In the Puranas and other religious scriptures, a number of lokas (worlds) are described where the jivas go to after death. Where do these planes exist?

SAGE: On the basis of similarity in certain aspects and difference in others, the after-death planes are divided into 3 principal lokas. The one is called prityaloka, where a person after death finds swarga, or, heaven, and naraka, or hell, and where the ruler or presiding deity is the great judge Dharmaraja, who consigns good people to heaven and bad ones or sinners to hell. The other is called devaloka where the presiding deity is Indra. Here, the devotees or upasika of the minor deities go and enjoy the pleasures of that world. The 3rd or the highest plane is called Brahmaloka, where Brahma is the presiding deity. Here the devotees of the major deities such as of Vishnu, Mahadeo, etc, go and share with Brahma the highest pleasure and remain there till the end of the kalpa (cycle of creation). These planes require no space. They all exist in the mind and interpenetrate each other. Just as 50 persons sleeping in one and the same apartment create as many dream worlds, each in itself limitless and independent, so these mental worlds, which are subtler than light, require no space to occupy. Light, as you know, is so subtle that you can throw or concentrate lights from hundreds of lamps one over the other at one particular spot on the wall by means of lenses without producing the least thickness on that spot and then you can separate one by one by removing the lamps. Thus, there are innumerable worlds, all mental, and as numerous as the jivas (personalities). In the Absolute or Ultimate Reality, there are no planes and as long as you do not attain or reach final awakening into the Absolute, you will find yourself in one plane or the other.

21. DREAMER: You say that when a person dies, he leaves the world altogether, he does not return to the same world or plane again. But, I have seen at many séances in the waking world, dead people talking through certain persons, especially through women. Indeed, the followers of the Radhaswami Faith claim that they can see and have direct talk with their departed guru.

SAGE: Dead persons do not, as a rule, return to the world they have once left. It is ordinarily as impractical as to have the same dream again and again. But just as by certain practices, you can make a dream recur again and again, as it may be possible through yoga practices to make the dead appear in specially manufactured mental states. A yogi can do it by yagaghyas and a bhakti (devotee) can call and receive instructions from his guru or ishtdeva (beloved god) by means of mantra or prayers. But, only those personalities can be approached in this manner that are yet in any plane of creation and have not attained kaivalya moksha or final liberation. But, remember that the dead do not return in their original personalities. What people see is kalpit or a mere phantom of their own creation and it is why a large number of devotees can see the same guru or deity at one and the same time. Such occurrences or séances do not differ from dream creation. That I am at this time preaching to you does not mean that I am only in your dream and nowhere else. Any one like yourself, can this very moment, conjure up my phantom by the same method as you have employed.

22. DREAMER: What is kaivalya moksha or final liberation? Has any one of the ancient sages reached it, and, have you yourself attained it?

SAGE: Kaivalya moksha consists in complete dissolution of personality or separateness into one Absolute Adwaita. It is inconceivable and beyond the reach of mind and that is the reason why even the great rishis and arhats of Jain religion refuse to believe in a final liberation. None of the ancient or modern sages, of whom the name (nama) and form (rupa) are known to you, has acquired kaivalya moksha. Neither I, nor even the well known Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Christ, etc. have attained it. They are yet a long way from the goal. Some are in devaloka (region of gods) and others in Brahmaloka, the world of Brahma. So long as their names and forms can be brought down into the minds of their devotees, they cannot go beyond the spheres of creation. I and many other sages who have reached the highest plane, know what final liberation or kaivalya moksha is, but, so long as there is a single devotee to remember or worship us, and, we have the slightest vasna (desire) of doing good to others, we cannot attain kaivalya moksha. We are free from all bondage, have the power to reveal ourselves in any form, are not only above the influence of natural laws, but are the makers of all laws and creators of all beings, yet not one of us is entirely free. We are still in bondage in that we can be brought down from our high position to appear before our true and earnest devotees.

23. DREAMER: Who, then, can go beyond the spheres of creation and attain what you call kaivalya moksha?

SAGE: Those only who reach the highest stage or bhumika of gnana (knowledge) in this life, have no disciples or adherents, and, leave no name and form after them. Such are the avadhuta and they are to be met with even now. They are dead while living (videhmukta), totally regardless of their existence, looking like lunatics, roaming about stark naked talking incoherently and acting automatically like newborn babes. Some of these avadhutas or majzoobs as they are called by the Sufis, you will find confined in your lunatic asylums. They are of no use to the outside world and none can be benefitted by them, hence, they leave no disciples behind. They obtain kaivalya moksha the moment their earthly sojourn, the result of their prarabdha karma comes to an end.

Our kaivalya moksha will be with Brahma at the end of this kalpa. If you desire to attain final liberation, never make a single disciple nor let the people know the name of your personality nor let yourself in any way be identified with any writings that you leave behind for the so-called others. There are plenty of gurus and Holy Scriptures for the guidance of men. You are fortunate enough to be living in what the people call a scientific age but we call it the age of skepticism and very few will believe in what you have to say about the Ultimate Truth. Yet, if a single soul in the whole world puts faith in your words and becomes your disciple, he will surely keep you back from kaivalya moksha. Hence my advice to you is that if you ever think of having this dialogue between us published for the supposed benefit of others, abstain from associating yourself with it. You know full well the story of Swedenborg’s persecutions. How he claimed to have visions and direct instructions from Christ. How he was required to swear before the King of Sweden to prove the truth of his allegations, and, how in spite of his assurances, the public did not believe his statements. This incident, apart from the spiritual danger indicated above, should be a clear warning against self-exploitation in such matters. You may publish this dialogue as a niskama karma (a work without expectation of any return).

24. DREAMER: Tell me now, whether you, like others, are a creature of my dream or possess an independent and separate existence. If you are like others, why should you possess so much more intelligence than all others and even myself, the creator of this world? A created being should not be superior in wisdom to his creator.

SAGE: It is not the rule that the father should always be superior to his offspring. Those that are most active and predominant in the father at the time of conception determine the qualities in the offspring. Similarly, the nature of dream creatures is determined by what is predominant in the dreamer at the time of his going to sleep. The mind, the creator of the dream, possesses 3 qualities or guna; tamasic, rajasic, and, satvic. When you were lingering in the earliest stage of ignorance, and, when your knowledge of the world, being a dream, was confined to the lowest instinctive mind, the tamasic qualities were predominant in your mind your dream creatures were mostly ignorant (agyani) and skeptics. But by means of abhyas and by extending your knowledge to higher faculties, the satvic qualities, intellect and vichar (discrimination) became predominant in you, and consequently, the creatures of your dream are now intelligent beings and some of them are even far superior to yourself. In the waking world too, sons are often superior to their fathers in intelligence and wisdom. Or you may understand it in this way, which is the occultist’s way of explaining the same thing, that when you were not sufficiently advanced in your knowledge of Truth, you used to go into the dream world of ignorant people, and now, as you have made progress, you have come into my dream world. Later on, if you stick to your practice, you will be able to carry your consciousness to the highest intuitive mind that will further change your dream world and take you to the Brahmaloka.

In reality, I am you and you are I, and, you yourself, in the form of I, are addressing yourself. The dream does not differ from your waking state meditation where too, both the questions and answers come from the same source. When you will fully realize it or awaken into the Absolute, there will remain neither I nor you nor others. All will merge into one adwaita.

Now, as long as you do not reach the last stage, let our discourse be in the relative world or mayavic sense, and, from this point of view, I am Vasishta as represented in your books, a son of Brahma. And, in a way, every created being is the son of his supreme creator. You too, are at this moment, in the position of the creator, being the knower of your dream and I am your son created from the satvic guna in you. It is not the first time that I am preaching Brahmavidya to my own creator. Previously, I was required to act as the guru of Ramachandra, who, born of worldly parents, had utterly forgotten his Godhood.

25. DREAMER: If you are a creature of my dream, how can your updesh (preaching), which is also kalpit (mental), help me in getting rid of the bondage of dreaming?

SAGE: It is true that my updesh and I are both kalpit, yet understand that for your disease of the dream, you must seek help from a physician of the dream. No doctor of your waking world can come here to cure you. Remember that your bondage is also kalpit and so are the pain and miseries of this dream world. When you are awakened, everything will vanish. My kalpit updesh will remove your kalpit bondage. To extract a thorn or foreign body from the flesh, another foreign substance is required. And, when the former is removed, both are to be thrown away.