Idealism and the World
Dr. Gregory Goode

Visit Greg Goode's website.

Link to entry on Current Teacher's page

The following is an edited transcript of a discussion on the Advaitin Egroup in Dec 2003.

Q: Does the world exist apart from a perceiver?

There are several very helpful ways to talk about this. And in none of these is the world ever truly independent.

(1) As Berkeley does. Then the answer is "No."

(2) As advaita vedAnta does. Then it would depend on the standpoint – sRRiShTi-dRRiShti-vAda, dRRiShTi-sRRiShTi-vAda, or ajAti-vAda. And for the last vAda at least, the answer is "No."

(3) Logically. The question mentions a perceiver and a world. Then the perceiver is either part of the world or not. If you say that the perceiver is not part of the world, then where would the perceiver be? Outside the world? This would entail that the perceiver exists but is outside the world. This makes no sense, and the world is missing something that is claimed to exist. If you say that the perceiver is part of the world, then what is it that is perceiving the perceiver? Rinse and repeat. The question, taken at face value, makes no sense. Independence need not be presumed.

(4) As Shri Atmananda answers it. Cf. Atmananda's short essay "World," published with ATMA NIRVRITI:

"...What is perceived is not different from perception and perception is not different from the Perceiver and ... therefore the world is the Perceiver himself. ... The world is nothing but sense-objects and they are sound, form, touch, taste and smell. It is not possible to separate these from sense-perceptions. One cannot even think of a form without allowing the idea of seeing to get into the act of thinking. The same is the case with the objects of the other senses also. It can be seen from this that even in idea, the sense-objects do not admit of separation from the respective sense-perceptions. Therefore, objects are not different from, but one with perceptions. These perceptions not being outside, what is called the world cannot also exist outside. Sense-perceptions themselves may be examined now. They never stand separate from consciousness. With eyes open one does not see anything unless consciousness is there. Therefore sense-perceptions are nothing but consciousness. So also are all the activities of the mind. This shows that the entire gross world and the subtle are consciousness itself."

Idealism is very effective in showing how the notion of material substance existing external to perception is an incoherent notion. But idealism leaves a subtle residue, which itself must be looked into.

Idealism (like Berkeley's) presumes the independence of the individual mind. Individuals' minds and God's mind. Idealism argues against a physical independent world, but bases these arguments on the assumption of a subtle independent world. The notion of independence has merely shifted. This is a helpful stage, but not final.

What does the advaitin make of the Berkeleyan idealist? They might say the idealist is like the student-son in the Taittiriya Upanishad who got stuck at Chapter III:v ("The Intellect as Brahman") instead of continuing to the end to Chapter III:x.6.

This additional passage from Shri Atmananda will help answer the question ‘Is there a world independent of perception?’.

From ATMA NIRVRITI, Chapter 3. "Seeing and Hearing."

I
Unless there is seeing, there is no form.
Form has no independent existence and is
therefore the seeing itself.

II
If form is itself seeing, how can one see
a form? Therefore what is seen is not
form but something different.

III
Likewise objects of the other senses are
also mere sense perception.

IV
Because hearing is itself sound, no one
hears a sound. This truth applies generally
to all sense-objects.

V
If therefore a searching enquiry is made
to know what it is that is really perceived,
it will be found that it is the Absolute
Reality itself.

VI
If it is the Absolute Reality that is
perceived, how can the illusion of a
world exist thereafter?

Return to list of topics in Discourses by Teachers and Writers .
See the list sorted by Topic.
See the list sorted by Author.

See more articles by Greg at the Non-duality Salon.